157 10011 10083

157-10011-10083

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AGENCY: SSCIA RECORD NUMBER: 157-10011-10083

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DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR: ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION FROM : TO : TITLE : DESPOSITION/TRANSCRIPT OF STURBITTS, WILLIAM C.

DATE: 04/16/75 PAGES: 114

SUBJECTS : DEPOSITION OF STURBITTS, WILLIAM C.

DOCUMENT TYPE: PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT CLASSIFICATION : S RESTRICTIONS: REFERRED CURRENT STATUS: P DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 09/29/93

OPENING CRITERIA : COMMENTS: SSCI Box 292, Folder 1

Date: 10/06/93 Page:1

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AS SANITIZED RELEASE OF THIS DOCUMENT DECLASSIFICATION AND/OR CIA HAS NO OBJECTION TO CIA HAS NO OBJECTION TO DECLASSIFICATION AND/OR RELEASE OF THIS DOCUMENT AS SANITIZED 6 APR 1--262 5-7 ORIGINAL

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Wed:sday 16, 1975 Langley, Virginia WASHINGTON, D.C. 410 First Street, S.E., 20003 Phone DocF999 Page 2 WARD & PAUL Verba Spoken volant-words fly- scripta manent written words endure TM FAIRFAX, VIRGINIA 4055 Chain Bridge Rd., 22030 Phone (703) 273-2400

NW 50955 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, DC. 20003 WARD & PAUL Phone (Area (202) 54-1-6000

SECRET CONTESTS

Deposicion of William C. Sturbitts Examination by Counsel For the Commission

(AFTERNOON SESSION Page 58) William C. Sturbitts (Resumed) 7 0 :: 1. DocId: 32203851 Page 3 58 2 A

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SECRET PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION

ON CIA ACTIVITIES Langley, Virginia Wednesday, April 16, 1975

Deposition of WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called for 7 3 9 10 examination by Counsel for the Commission on CIA Activities, the witness being duly sworn by Thomas C. Hogan, a Notary Public in and for the State of Virginia, in the offices of the Central Intelligence Agency, Langley, Virginia, at 9:50 11 12 13 o'clock a.m., on Wednesday, April 16, 1975, the proceedings being taken down in stenotype by Ruth G. McClenning, and transcribed under her direction. 14 APPEARANCES: 15 On behalf of the Commission: 16 GEORGE MANFREDI, ESQ., 17 ROBERT B. OLSEN, ESQ. 1.3 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DocId:32203851 Page 4 1

NW 50955 WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 8 7 6 5 1 2 Thereupon,

SECRET PROCEEDINGS WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called as a witness by Counsel for the Commission on CIA Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the Notary Public, was examined and testified as follows:

EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMISSION BY MR. MANFREDI: 9 Q Mr. Sturbitts, will you state your full name for the 10 record? 11 A William C. Sturbitts. 12 Q Mr. Sturbitts, do you recall when we spoke coに 13 weeks ago you signed a document entitled, "Advice ard 14 Waiver"? 15 A Right. 16 Q You understand that document is still in effec 17 A Sure. 18 Ω Mr. Sturbitts, by whom are you currently emp!!? 19 A You mean the Agency or 20 Q That is right. 21 A Central Intelligence Agency. 11 22 Q And what is your current position with the Agency? 23 A I am a Special Assistant, Latin America, for 24 Economic Intelligence Collection and Operations. 25 Q And would you briefly review for me the history o 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 NW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 5 SECDET 2

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SECRET 3 your employment with the Agency? A When I first came in I was in the Intelligence Directorate for approximately ten years and I was put on special detail, special indefinite detail, in the Deputy Director, Plans, 5 which is now the Directorate of Operations. 6 Ω What year were you put on that detail? 7 A I guess it was 1964, January, I believe. 8 Q And what did that detail involve? 9 A Cuban operations, economic warfare. 10 Q And how long were you on that detail? 11 A 12 Q 13 A I was in the Cuban operations for nine years. Between 1964 and 19732 (Nods in affirmative.) 14 Q And in 1973 did you assume your current position? 15 A 16 Q Yes, January. Now, while you were on special detail to the DO? 17 A Yes. 18 Q 19 A Were you stationed in Washington? Yes. 20 Q And did you commute with some frequency to !!iami? 21 A Yes. 22 2 Were your activities in Miami in any way connected 23 with the operations of the Miami Station? 24 A In some way. My responsibilities were worldwide. 25 I took temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then Miari. 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 DocId:32203851 Page 6 SECRET

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SECRET 1 Most of my operations were run out of Europe. 2 Q Run out of 5 A Europe. Some were run out of Miami but the big ones were run out of Europe. 5 Q Well, in the course of your activities with respect 5 7 to Cuba did you have occasion to become familiar with the operations of the Miami base? 8 A Yes. 9 Q And the situation in the Cuban community in Miami? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q During the nine years you were with DDO's Cuban 12 operations, who was who were the chiefs of the Miami 13 Station? 14 A I think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he 15 16 was followed by I can't think of his name. I should know it. Well, I will come back to that. 17 Then, the next Chief of Station was Paul Henze. 18 Q What years was he Chief? 19 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 A I think Paul was there about a year and a half. He 20 left in 1968 when we reduced the size of the Station. Let's 21 say Henze was there from 1966 to 1968. And then Jake Esterling. 22 He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973. 23 Q Now, what was the formal title of the group to which 24 you were assigned for the 9-year period? 25 A Well, when I first came in it was known as the NW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 7 SECRET 4

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SECRET 5 Special Activities Staff. It was headed by Desmond Fitzgerald. And then, I believe after that it became the Cuban Operations Group. Q 5 Now, was this a special group within the DDO or was it attached to one of the area divisions? 6 A No. Following the Bay of Pigs, they created a thing. 7 8 called Task Force in which was headed by Bill Harvey. And that when Harvey left, the went to Chief of s Chief of Station, Rome ! 9 mama Fitzgerald took over, it became Special Activities Staff. 10 11 It wasn't attached to anything except it reported to the Deputy Director, Plans. 12 WARD & PAUL Q And that was Mr. Karamessines? 13 A Yes. Well, it was Helms at that time back when it. 14 was first created. Helms was DDP at that time. 1.5 Q And Task Force W was created immediately after the 16 Bay of Pigs? 17 A Well, not immediately. I think sometime around 18 19 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 in the Bay of Pigs was in April. I think this was created in September, something like that, 1961. 20 Q And that subsequently became the Special Activities 21 Staff? 22 A 23 24 Special Activities Staff and consequently became the Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went back into the Western Hemisphere Division. 25 Q NW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 8 And what was the date of that reorganization? SECRET

SECRET 6 Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 2. A Well, let's see. I would say that was probably around 1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief, W.H., and then later DDP. Q 5 Now, Mr.Harvey do you recall what position Mr. Harvey held after he left Task Force W? 6 A Yes. He was Chief of Station, Rome. 7 Q And is he still with the Agency? S A Oh, no. He retired a long time ago. 9 Q Do you know where he lives at the present time? 10 A Frankly, I don't. I have an idea where he lives. 11 He went to work for a friend of mine who had a law firm. 12 Harvey is a lawyer. WARD & PAUL 13 Q Indianapolis area? 14 A Yes, some place around there. It is in the midwest, Indiana. 15 Q 16 What was the role that was assigned to Task Force W? 17 A It was the overall Cuban operations. 18 Q Did the Miami when was the Miami Station estab- 19 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 lished? 20 A Well, I think they had a forward operatio-s base down 21 there about 1960 which was small, in Coral Gables. 22 Ω This was, then, prior to the Bay of Pigs? 23 A 24 Oh, yes. Q Now, in addition to Task Force W, was the Miami 25 NW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 9 SECRET

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SECRET Station running any operations against Cuba? A You mean prior to the Bay of Pigs? Q Yes. 7 A it was a I really don't know. It was a small forward base and it was more or less as I recall, a support type thing. 7 Q Well, after the Bay of Pigs when Task Force W was 8 established, did it have sole responsibility for Cuban 9 operations? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Or was that shared with the Miami base, Miami 12 WARD & PAUL Station? 13 A No. The Miami Station was under Task Force W. 14 Q All right. Would that also be true of the Special 15 Activities Staff, the Cuban Operations Group? 16 A Right, except that at the present time the Station 17 has no Cuban operations. 13 Q I understand that. When were Cuban operations termi- 19 nated? 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 20 A At the Station? Let's see. Sternfield went down 21 there in 1972. It was during fiscal year '72. I think it was : 22 in early 1973. It was a gradual reduction. 22 Q And have those operations been terminated entirely 24 or are they now run out of the Washington area? 25 A All Cuban operations are run out of Washington. NW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 10

SECRET 8 Phone (Arel 202) 54-1-6000 There are no more paramilitary operations, that type of thing. ハン 2 Q But there are some Cuban operations being run out of the Washington area? A Right. Q Is that correct? 6 A Right. Worldwide. 7 Q Mr.Sturbitts, in the last couple of weeks you may 1 8 have seen some allegations in the press about possible assassina- 9 tion attempts that have been mounted or alleged assassination 10 attempts that have been mounted 11 A Right. 12 WARD & PAUL Ω against Fidel Castro. In the course of your 13 activities with respect to Cuba, did you ever learn of any such 14 attempts? 15 A Well, let me answer it this way. I wouldn't say 16 attempts. I know there was discussion. "Attempts" is too 17 strong a word. 18 Q Well, can you place in time your first knowledge of 19 any such discussions? 410 First Slucet, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 20 A Well, the first knowledge I had of any discussions, 21 22 23 24 I was on TDY and this was October, November, 1963, with Fitzgeral. in Paris. And I knew that he was going to meet let me put it another way. I had overheard that discussions were going on with a member of Castro's military but that he wanted, as 25 I recall, he wanted some British -- I mean Belgian grifles and NW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 11 CPADCT

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SECRET a telescopic sight. Q Who wanted them? A This military guy that was in Fidel's I think 9 از 6 7 8 at one time he was a commandante. Now, I knew that was going on. I didn't participate in it because I was there for another reason. And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgerald met with him again and as I recall, as the personal representa- tive of the Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy. 9 I provided all those files. There are 19 valumes that 10 we gave to your people. But I don't know who was reviewing 11 them. I think Belin was going to do it himself. 12 WARD & PAUL Q Yes. He is. He is doing it himself. 13 You said there were 19 volumes of documents with 14 respect to this. 15 A 19 files, manila. 16 Q All having to do with possible assassination? 17 A All having to do with this whole time period and 18 19 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 can we go off the record for a minute? (Discussion off the record.) 20 BY MR. MANFREDI: 21 Q The first knowledge of such conversations that you 22 23 had, I take it you obtained on a trip to Europe with Mr. Fitzgerald? 24. A I simply overheard it, that is right. 25 Q And who were the parties to the conversation you overr NW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 12 SECRET

SECRET 10 Pitone (Area 202) 544-6000 1 heard? 2 A A fellow named Nestor Sanchez. Q And Mr. Fitzgerald? 4 A Yes, and I really can't recall some of the other 5 6 7 8 9 people. We were we had just moved the Station at that time, in Paris, out of the Embassy into the old Rothschild Palace and we felt that it was probably bugged, so all conversations took place we walked around the garden and tyat type of thing, and, you know, I was walking with somebody, somebody 10 was in front of me, and you just overhear conversations. 11 Q This was in Paris? 12 WARD & PAUL A Yes. 1.3 Q I see. 14 Mr. Sanchez-- was he a member of the military? 15 A No. Mr. Sanchez was in the Special Activities Staff. 16 He was stationed in Washington. And he was in contact with ここ Cuban military type. | 13 Q Was it your understanding that the Agency had received 19 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 instructions with respect to this activity from another 20 component of the Government? 21 A 22 23 24 25 Well, let me put it this way. I don't know whether they received instructions. I have to assume, and I am pretty positive, that this was a result of a Special Group decision. And at this time you have to remember that Bobby Kennedy was overseeing this deal, presumably for his brother, and he was SECRET NW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 13

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SECRET م 三 part of that Special Group. He called the meetings, he presided, he did a number of things. Q Were there any other occasions that you can recall in which the possibility or the subject of assassination of 5 Fidel Castro was discussed? 6 A 'No, not really. 7 Q You referred to this as the first occasion. 8 A This is the first 9 Q Was there a second? 10 A the first time I knew about it or even heard it 11 discussed. 12 Q Well, prior to the investigation that is currently i 13 underway I am referring now to our Commission's investigation 14 were there any other occasions in which this subject came 15 to your attention after this discussion in the garden in 16 Paris? 17 A The only other thing that came to my attention was 18 that the decision was made not to provide him with this st 1.9 that he wanted. Whether that is right or wrong, I don't know, 20 but that is what I was told. 21 Q When did you learn that? 22 A Oh, I would assume in must have been early 1954, 23 around February, something like that. 24 Ω Off the record. 25 (Discussion off the record.) NW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 14 11

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SECRET MR. MANFREDI: On the record. 12 BY MR. MANFREDI: i Q Mr. Sturbitts, are you familiar with a gentleman by the name of Frank Sturgis? Ci A Indeed. 6 Q Is your familiarity based on what you have read in 7 the press? 8 A No. It is what is contained in the files. 9 Q Have you caused a search to be made of CIA files, 10 11 12 WARD & PAUL particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division, in an attempt to determine whether Mr. Sturgis ever had any connection with the Agency? 13 A I have. 14 Ω What were the results of that search? 15 A Absolutely no connection, never has been. 16 Q When we talk about connection, are we talking about 17 an employment relationship? 18 A That is what I am speaking of. 19 Q 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 Was Mr.Sturgis ever an independent contractor of 20 the Agency? 21 A No. 22 Q Was he ever a contract employee? 23 A No. 24 Q Was he ever a regular employee of the Agency? 25 A No. DocId:32203851 Page 15 NW 50955

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SECRET 13 Ω Was he ever hired to do any piecework for the Agency? A Not to my knowledge. 고 Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici- 5 pated in any type of paramilitary or other operation against 6 Cuba? 7 A On his own behalf he did, not on behalf of this S Agency. 9 Q How did you learn of those operations? 10 A 12 Ω Through the newspaper. And through FBI reports. Now, are these recent FBI reports? 12 A 13 Oh, no. These go back I know at one time, the thing that comes to mind, I think he made a leaflet drop 14 over Cuba and this was subsequently reported in the press and 15 by the Bureau office in Miami. 16 Q Do you know who financed his activities? A I have no idea. 18 Q Is it possible that Mr. Sturgis' activities were 13 indirectly financed by the Agency through 1 20 A 21 I don't see how. Frank Sturgis is a soldier of fortune; has been. He has constantly tried to associate himself 22 with the Agency. When I went through his file they wanted me 23 24 to classify the file and the way I classified it was "don't destroy it, he is an intelligence nuisance." 25 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 NW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 16 Q Off the record. SECRET

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SECRET (Discussion off the record.) MR. MANFREDI: Or the record. 14 BY MR. MANFREDI: Q Have you caused the Agency records with respect to Mr. 5 Sturgis to be assembled in any one location? 6 A Yes. Ihave custody of them. 7 Q And what is the volume of that material? 8 A As I recall, there are five volumes. Your Committee 9 called for them the other day after the article in the paper, 10 I guess it was last Saturday. They called for them Monday and 11 they returned them Monday afternoon. 12 Q Do you know who examined those files? 13 A No, I don't. 14 Q You indicated a moment ago that Mr. Sturgis contacts 15 the DCD office in Miami with some frequency, is that correct? 16 A Well, not great frequency but he does with tidbits 1 of so-called information. 13 Q Is this information limited to narcotics, alleged 19 narcotics traffic? 20 A Recently it has been. 21 Q Has Mr. Sturgis been encouraged by the DCD office 22 in Miami? 23 A Mr. Sturgis has been told by the DCD office in Miami 24 to take his information to the Drug Enforcement Agency or the 25 FBI. 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 NW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 17 電

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SECRET 2 Do you know whether or not they consider him an A No manner. Ω Do they have any do they periodically seek to 5 collect information from Mr. Sturgis? 6 A 7 8 9 10 I can't speak to that but the records that we have don't reflect anything like that. Before they would contact somebody in that context, knowing that there is a 201 file on Sturgis, they would have to coordinate with the Latin American Division before they did anything since we do hold 11 the file. 12 Q Would you briefly explain what a 201 file is? 13 A A 201 file is a personnel file. It consists of any 14 information relating to an individual appearing in the press 15 16 Q as a result of other agency reporting and that type of thing. Personnel or personality file? 17 A Personality file, I should say. Excuse me. 18 Q Do you know whether or not there is any connection 19 or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr. Sturgis? 20 A Well, I will say this. Obviously, they do know 21 each other. They have to know each other from their days 22 in Cuba. 23 Q Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici- 24 pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba? A No. As I recall, we employed Martinez around 1961, 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 25 NW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 18 15

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SECRET 16 I guess, and he was in our maritime activities. He was a boat captain eventually. And he did participate in infiltrations and exfiltrations and perhaps one or two raids, hit and run, sabotage-type actions against Cuba. Sturgis never engaged in 5 6 7 any of these things. He never did it for us nor did he ever do it on any of our boats, planes, or anything that belongs to the Agency. 8 Q When Martinez would run such an operation or captain 9 10 a boat on such an operation, would he be charged with putting together his own crew? 11 A 12 WARD & PAUL No. ile had an assigned crew and every boat had a Case Officer operating either out of the probably out of ! 13 the Miami Station. Sometimes I would assume that we did have 14 15 some people in the key Westbase. But he, Martinez, would recei his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer. 16 Q So it is likely that he could have brought Sturgis 1.7 along on any of these operations? 18 A Absolutely unlikely. Oh, the guy whose name I WIS 19 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 trying to think of, Chief of Station, John Dimmer. 20 Q And that would be for a period of time between 21 Shackley and Wenze? 22 A Yes. 23 Q 1964 to 1966? 24 A Something like that. 25 Q Would you describe briefly for me the nature of the DocId:32203851 Page 19 CPADPT

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SECRET 17 activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during your and subsequently the Cuban Operations Group during your 9-year tenure with those groups. A Well, there was it was an across-the-board 5 6 7 8 9 Q 10 A 11 Q 12 WARD & PAUL operations. intelligence operation consisting of collection of foreign 1: positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary activities, covert action, economic activities. That is about the breadth of the thing. Now, these were all conducted through the DDO? Right. Now, let's speak for a moment about the paramilitary Were these operations run out of southern 13 Florida? 14 A Right. 15 Q And in particular out of the Miami Station? 16 A Yes. 17 Ω Were there any other CIA facilities in that area of 18 the country that participated in these activities? 19 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 A Not to my knowledge. とつ Q Were there any southern harbors other than Miami 21 that were used in these activities? 221 A Well, we had activities down in the Keyshalso. Ast 23 I said we did have a key West base. 24 Q Were there any other bases in that area of the 25 country that were utilized in these operations? DocId:32203851 Page 20

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 SECRET 18 7 A Well, not that I would call a base. We did have : training facilities for the UDT teams, 3 ٢٠: li Q What is a UDT team? A Underwater demolition。 -51 Q Where were those bases located? A I frankly don't know. They were down along the Keys Lalong that long peninsula going down there. There were, a 8 number of sites: I really can't recall them. 9 Q Were there any other sites within the United States 10 11 in which paramilitary training was conducted, for people participating in these activities? 12 WARD & PAUL A Not to my knowledge. 13 Q Where were these people trained? 14 A What do you mean? 15 Q Well, Cubans who participated in these activities. 16 A We trained them at these places we had in the Keys Now, there also -- some of them were brought up here and trained 18 at the Domestic Training Station. 19 Q Where is that located? 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 20 A That is down in Virginia. 21 Q Were any CIA personnel actually involved in these 22 raids? 23 A Occasionally, I would think that you have got to 24 25 understand at this time that we had a great many contract employees, independent contractors and this type of thing. NW 50955 DocId: 32203851 Page 21

WARD & PAUL Phone (Arca 202) 544-6000 i Most of the paramilitary operations and the training was conducted by the Special Operations Group which is another entity of the Q DDO? 5 A DDO. Q Now, the facilities that we have been talking about, 7

1: training facilities, were manned, then, by the Special 8 Operations Group, or at least supervised by the Special 9 Operations Group, is that correct? 10 A 11 12 1.3 14