178 10002 10215

178-10002-10215 2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992 JFK Assassination System Identification Form Date: 8/31/2017

Agency Information AGENCY: ROCKCOM RECORD NUMBER: 178-10002-10215 RECORD SERIES: ASSASSINATION FILES AGENCY FILE NUMBER: DEPOSITION OF (A CIA EMPLOYEE)

Document Information ORIGINATOR: ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION FROM: TO: TITLE:

DATE: 04/16/1975 PAGES: 8 SUBJECTS: ANTI-CASTRO ACTIVITIES CIA CLANDESTINE OPERATIONS CUBAN EXILES FITZGERALD, DESMOND STURGIS, FRANK HUNT, E. HOWARD KENNEDY, ROBERT F. ORGANIZED CRIME ROSELLI, JOHNNY STURBITTS, WILLIAM GIANCANA, SAM DOCUMENT TYPE: DEPOSITION CLASSIFICATION: Secret RESTRICTIONS: 1A; IB; IC CURRENT STATUS: Redact DATE OF LAST REVIEW: 02/13/2001 OPENING CRITERIA : COMMENTS: Selected pages from deposition. Full document is number 1781000210091.

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WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 SECRET 1 CONTENTS 2 Deposition of Examination by Counsel For the Commission 3 William C. Sturbitts 2 4 5 (AFTERNOON SESSION Page 58) 6 William C. Sturbitts (Resumed) 58 7 8 9 178-10002-10091 10 11 12 178-10002-10215 13 14 15 178-10002-10279 16 17 18 19 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 20 21 22 23 24 25 Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library SECRET NW 50955 DocId: 32275518 Page 2 A

WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 SECRET 2 PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON CIA ACTIVITIES

Langley, Virginia Wednesday, April 16, 1975 Deposition of WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called for examination by Counsel for the Commission on CIA Activities, the witness being duly sworn by Thomas C. Hogan, a Notary Public in and for the State of Virginia, in the offices of the Central Intelligence Agency, Langley, Virginia, at 9:50 o'clock a.m., on Wednesday, April 16, 1975, the proceedings being taken down in stenotype by Ruth G. McClenning, and transcribed under her direction.

APPEARANCES: On behalf of the Commission: GEORGE MANFREDI, ESQ., ROBERT B. OLSEN, ESQ.

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WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 SECRET 2 PROCEEDINGS Thereupon, WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called as a witness by Counsel for the Commission on CIA Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the Notary Public, was examined and testified as follows: EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION BY MR. MANFREDI: Q Mr. Sturbitts, will you state your full name for the record? A William C. Sturbitts. Q Mr. Sturbitts, do you recall when we spoke some weeks ago you signed a document entitled, "Advice and Waiver"? A Right. Q You understand that document is still in effect? A Sure. Q Mr. Sturbitts, by whom are you currently employed? A You mean the Agency or -- Q That is right. A Central Intelligence Agency. Q And what is your current position with the Agency? A I am a Special Assistant, Latin America, for Economic Intelligence Collection and Operations. Q And would you briefly review for me the history of SECRET 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 4 Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library

WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 SECRET your employment with the Agency? A When I first came in I was in the Intelligence Directorate for approximately ten years and I was put on special detail, special indefinite detail, in the Deputy Director, Plans, which is now the Directorate of Operations. Q What year were you put on that detail? A I guess it was 1964, January, I believe. Q And what did that detail involve? A Cuban operations, economic warfare. Q And how long were you on that detail? A I was in the Cuban operations for nine years. Q Between 1964 and 1973? A (Nods in affirmative.) Q And in 1973 did you assume your current position? A Yes, January. Q Now, while you were on special detail -- to the DOD? A Yes. Q Were you stationed in Washington? A Yes. Q And did you commute with some frequency to Miami? A Yes. Q Were your activities in Miami in any way connected with the operations of the Miami Station? A In some way. My responsibilities were worldwide. I took temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then Miami. SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 5

WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 SECRET Most of my operations were run out of Europe. Q Run out of A Europe. Some were run out of Miami but the big ones were run out of Europe. Q Well, in the course of your activities with respect to Cuba did you have occasion to become familiar with the operations of the Miami base? A Yes. Q And the situation in the Cuban community in Miami? A Yes, sir. Q During the nine years you were with DDO's Cuban operations, who was who were the chiefs of the Miami Station? A I think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he was followed by I can't think of his name. I should know it. Well, I will come back to that. Then, the next Chief of Station was Paul Henze. Q What years was he Chief? A I think Paul was there about a year and a half. He left in 1968 when we reduced the size of the Station. Let's say Henze was there from 1966 to 1968. And then Jake Esterline. He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973. Q Now, what was the formal title of the group to which you were assigned for the 9-year period? A Well, when I first came in it was known as the SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 410 First Street, S. E., Washington, D.C. 20003 NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 6

WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 SECRET Special Activities Staff. It was headed by Desmond Fitzgerald. And then, I believe after that it became the Cuban Operations Group. Q Now, was this a special group within the DDO or was it attached to one of the area divisions? A No. Following the Bay of Pigs, they created a thing called Task Force W which was headed by Bill Harvey. And that -- when Harvey left, he went to Chief of Station, Rome, and Fitzgerald took over, it became Special Activities Staff. It wasn't attached to anything except -- it reported to the Deputy Director, Plans. Q And that was Mr. Karamessines? A Yes. Well, it was Helms at that time back when it was first created. Helms was DDP at that time. Q And Task Force W was created immediately after the Bay of Pigs? A Well, not immediately. I think sometime around in the Bay of Pigs was in April. I think this was created in September, something like that, 1961. Q And that subsequently became the Special Activities Staff? A Special Activities Staff and consequently became the Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went back into the Western Hemisphere Division. Q And what was the date of that reorganization? 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, DC. 2000.1 NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 7 SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library

WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 SECRET A Well, let's see. I would say that was probably around 1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief, W.H., and then later DDP. Q Now, Mr.Harvey -- do you recall what position Mr. Harvey held after he left Task Force W? A Yes. He was Chief of Station, Rome. Q And is he still with the Agency? A Oh, no. He retired a long time ago. Q Do you know where he lives at the present time? A Frankly, I don't. I have an idea where he lives. He went to work for a friend of mine who had a law firm. Harvey is a lawyer. Q Indianapolis area? A Yes, some place around there. It is in the midwest, Indiana. Q What was the role that was assigned to Task Force W? A It was the overall Cuban operations. Q Did the Miami -- when was the Miami Station estab- lished? A Well, I think they had a forward operatio-s base down there about 1960 which was small, in Coral Gables. Q This was, then, prior to the Bay of Pigs? A Oh, yes. Q Now, in addition to Task Force W, was the Miami SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 410 fust Steel, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 8

WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 SECRET Station running any operations against Cuba? A You mean prior to the Bay of Pigs? Q Yes. A I really don't know. It was a small -- it was a forward base and it was more or less as I recall, a support type thing. Q Well, after the Bay of Pigs when Task Force W was established, did it have sole responsibility for Cuban operations? A Yes. Q Or was that shared with the Miami base, Miami Station? A No. The Miami Station was under Task Force W. Q All right. Would that also be true of the Special Activities Staff, the Cuban Operations Group? A Right, except that at the present time the Station has no Cuban operations. Q I understand that. When were Cuban operations termi- nated? A At the Station? Let's see. Sternfield went down there in 1972. It was during fiscal year '72. I think it was in early 1973. It was a gradual reduction. Q And have those operations been terminated entirely or are they now run out of the Washington area? A All Cuban operations are run out of Washington. 41010 S.E., Washington, DC. 20003 NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 9 SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library

WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 SECRET There are no more paramilitary operations, that type of thing. Q But there are some Cuban operations being run out of the Washington area? A Right. Q Is that correct? A Right. Worldwide. Q Mr.Sturbitts, in the last couple of weeks you may have seen some allegations in the press about possible assassina- tion attempts that have been mounted or alleged assassination attempts that have been mounted A Right. Q against Fidel Castro. In the course of your activities with respect to Cuba, did you ever learn of any such attempts? A Well, let me answer it this way. I wouldn't say attempts. I know there was discussion. "Attempts" is too strong a word. Q Well, can you place in time your first knowledge of any such discussions? A Well, the first knowledge I had of any discussions, I was on TDY and this was October, November, 1963, with Fitzgerald in Paris. And I knew that he was going to meet -- let me put it another way. I had overheard that discussions were going on with a member of Castro's military but that he wanted, as I recall, he wanted some British -- I mean Belgian rifles and 410 First Street, S. E., Washington, D.C. 20003 NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 10 SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library

WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 a telescopic sight. Q Who wanted them? A This military guy that was in Fidel's I think at one time he was a commandante. Now, I knew that was going on. I didn't participate in it because I was there for another reason. And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgerald met with him again and as I recall, as the personal representa- tive of the Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy. I provided all those files. There are 19 volumes that we gave to your people. But I don't know who was reviewing them. I think Belin was going to do it himself. Q Yes. He is. He is doing it himself. You said there were 19 volumes of documents with respect to this. A 19 files, manila. Q All having to do with possible assassination? A All having to do with this whole time period and can we go off the record for a minute? (Discussion off the record.) BY MR. MANFREDI: Q The first knowledge of such conversations that you had, I take it you obtained on a trip to Europe with Mr. Fitzgerald? A I simply overheard it, that is right. Q And who were the parties to the conversation you over- SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 410 fast Steel, S.E., Was D.C. 20003 NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 11

WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 heard? A A fellow named Nestor Sanchez. Q And Mr. Fitzgerald? A Yes, and I really can't recall some of the other people. We were we had just moved the Station at that time, in Paris, out of the Embassy into the old Rothschild Palace and we felt that it was probably bugged, so all conversations took place we walked around the garden and tyat type of thing, and, you know, I was walking with somebody, somebody was in front of me, and you just overhear conversations. Q This was in Paris? A Yes. Q I see. Mr. Sanchez was he a member of the military? A No. Mr Sanchez was in the Special Activities Staff. He was stationed in Washington. And he was in contact with Cuban military-type. Q Was it your understanding that the Agency had received instructions with respect to this activity from another component of the Government? A Well, let me put it this way. I don't know whether they received instructions. I have to assume, and I am pretty positive, that this was a result of a Special Group decision. And at this time you have to remember that Bobby Kennedy was overseeing this deal, presumably for his brother, and he was 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 12 SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library

WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 SECRET part of that Special Group. He called the meetings, he presided he did a number of things. Q Were there any other occasions that you can recall in which the possibility or the subject of assassination of Fidel Castro was discussed? A No, not really. Q You referred to this as the first occasion. A This is the first -- Q Was there a second? A the first time I knew about it or even heard it discussed. Q Well, prior to the investigation that is currently underway I am referring now to our Commission's investigation were there any other occasions in which this subject came to your attention after this discussion in the garden in Paris? A The only other thing that came to my attention was that the decision was made not to provide him with this sight that he wanted. Whether that is right or wrong, I don't know, but that is what I was told. Q When did you learn that? A Oh, I would assume in must have been early 1964, around February, something like that. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 410 1st Sccl, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 13

WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 54-1-0000 SECRET MR. MANFREDI: On the record. BY MR. MANFREDI: Q Mr. Sturbitts, are you familiar with a gentleman by the name of Frank Sturgis? A Indeed. Q Is your familiarity based on what you have read in the press? A No. It is what is contained in the files. Q Have you caused a search to be made of CIA files, particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division, in an attempt to determine whether Mr. Sturgis ever had any connection with the Agency? A I have. Q What were the results of that search? A Absolutely no connection, never has been. Q When we talk about connection, are we talking about an employment relationship? A That is what I am speaking of. Q Was Mr.Sturgis ever an independent contractor of the Agency? A No. Q Was he ever a contract employee? A No. Q Was he ever a regular employee of the Agency? A No. SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 410 lust Shaul, S.E., Washington, DC. 20003 NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 14 12

WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 SECRET Q Was he ever hired to do any piecework for the Agency? A Not to my knowledge. Q Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici- pated in any type of paramilitary or other operation against Cuba? A On his own behalf he did, not on behalf of this Agency. Q How did you learn of those operations? A Through the newspaper. And through FBI reports. Q Now, are these recent FBI reports? A Oh, no. These go back I know at one time, the thing that comes to mind, I think he made a leaflet drop over Cuba and this was subsequently reported in the press and by the Bureau office in Miami. Q Do you know who financed his activities? A I have no idea. Q Is it possible that Mr. Sturgis' activities were indirectly financed by the Agency through A I don't see how. Frank Sturgis is a soldier of fortune has been. He has constantly tried to associate himself with the Agency. When I went through his file they wanted me to classify the file and the way I classified it was "don't destroy it, he is an intelligence nuisance." Q Off the record. SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 410 first Street, S.E., Wastungton, D.C. 20003 NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 15

WARD A PALJI Phone (Area 202) 541-6000 SECRET (Discussion off the record.) MR. MANFREDI: On the record. BY MR. MANFREDI: Q Have you caused the Agency records with respect to Mrl. Sturgis to be assembled in any one location? A Yes. Ihave custody of them. Q And what is the volume of that material? A As I recall, there are five volumes. Your Committee | called for them the other day after the article in the paper, I guess it was last Saturday. They called for them Monday and they returned them Monday afternoon. Q Do you know who examined those files? A No, I don't. Q You indicated a moment ago that Mr. Sturgis contacts the DCD office in Miami with some frequency, is that correct? A Well, not great frequency but he does with tidbits of so-called information. Q Is this information limited to narcotics, alleged narcotics traffic? A Recently it has been. Q Has Mr. Sturgis been encouraged by the DCD office in Miami? A Mr. Sturgis has been told by the DCD office in Miami to take his information to the Drug Enforcement Agency or the FBI. SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 410 Sheet, S. E., Washington, D.C. 20003 NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 16 14

WARD & PAUL Prome (Area 202) 544-6000 SECRET Q Do you know whether or not they consider him an established contact? A No manner. Q Do they have any do they periodically seek to collect information from Mr. Sturgis? A I can't speak to that but the records that we have don't reflect anything like that. Before they would contact somebody in that context, knowing that there is a 201 file on Sturgis, they would have to coordinate with the Latin American Division before they did anything since we do hold the file. Q Would you briefly explain what a 201 file is? A A 201 file is a personnel file. It consists of any information relating to an individual appearing in the press as a result of other agency reporting and that type of thing.. Q Personnel or personality file? A Personality file, I should say. Excuse me. Q Do you know whether or not there is any connection or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr. Sturgis? A Well, I will say this. Obviously, they do know each other. They have to know each other from their days in Cuba. Q Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici- pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba? A No. As I recall, we employed Martinez around 1961, 410 fast Steel, S.E., Was D.C. 20003 NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 17 SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library

WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 SECRET I guess, and he was in our maritime activities. He was a boat captain eventually. And he did participate in infiltrations and exfiltrations and perhaps one or two raids, hit and run, sabotage-type actions against Cuba. Sturgis never engaged in any of these things. He never did it for us nor did he ever do it on any of our boats, planes, or anything that belongs to the Agency. Q When Martinez would run such an operation or captain a boat on such an operation, would he be charged with putting together his own crew? A No. He had an assigned crew and every boat had a Case Officer operating either out of the probably out of the Miami Station. Sometimes I would assume that we did have some people in the Key West base. But he, Martinez, would receive his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer. Q So it is likely that he could have brought Sturgis along on any of these operations? A Absolutely unlikely. Oh, the guy whose name I was trying to think of, Chief of Station, John Dimmer. Q And that would be for a period of time between Shackley and Henze? A Yes. Q 1964 to 1966? A Something like that. Q Would you describe briefly for me the nature of the SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 18

WARD A PAUI Phone (Arca 202) 544 6000 activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during your and subsequently the Cuban Operations Group during your 9-year tenure with those groups. A Well, there was it was an across-the-board intelligence operation consisting of collection of foreign positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary activities, covert action, economic activities. That is about the breadth of the thing. 2 Now, these were all conducted through the DDO? A Right. 2 Now, let's speak for a moment about the paramilitary operations. Were these operations run out of southern Florida? A Right. 2 And in particular out of the Miami Station? A Yes. 2 Were there any other CIA facilities in that area of the country that participated in these activities? A Not to my knowledge.. 2 Were there any southern harbors other than Miami that were used in these activities? A Well, we had activities down in the Keys also. As I said, we did have a Key West base. 2 Were there any other bases in that area of the country that were utilized in these operations? SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library 410 st, S., Washion, DC. 2000) NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 19

Phone (Ard S SECKEI 1 A Well, not that I would call a base. We did have 2 training facilities for the UDT teams. ان Ω What is a UDT team? 4 A Underwater demolition. 5 Q Where were those bases located? 6 A I frankly don't know. They were down along the Keys, 7 along that long peninsula going down there. There were a 8 number of sites. I really can't recall them. 9 Q Were there any other sites within the United States 10 in which paramilitary training was conducted, for people 11 participating in these activities? 12 A Not to my knowledge. 13 Ω Where were these people trained? 14 A What do you mean? Ω Well, Cubans who participated in these activities. 16 A We trained them at these places we had in the Keys. 17 Now, there also some of them were brought up here and trained 18 at the Domestic Training Station. 19 Q Where is that located? 20 A That is down in Virginia. 21 Q Were any CIA personnel actually involved in these 22 raids? 23 A Occasionally, I would think that you have got to 41022 רון 24 understand at this time that we had a great many contract 25 employees, independent contractors and this type of thing. SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 20

WARD & PAUL Phone (Area 202) ১ ১. SECXEI 1 Most of the paramilitary operations and the training was 2 conducted by the Special Operations Group which is another 3 entity of the 4 Ω DDO? 5 A DDO. 6 Q Now, the facilities that we have been talking about, 7 training facilities, were manned, then, by the Special 8 Operations Group, or at least supervised by the Special 9 Operations Group, is that correct? 10 A Well, supervised, yes, and I would think that probably 11 12 some of the training was given by their people. The Domestic Training Station is under the Office of Training and but I 13 would think that in the paramilitary field that the SOG would 14 probably staff the training facility with their people who have 15 the expertise in paramilitary operations. 16 Now, were the people that were being trained at 17 these facilities basically Cuban refugees? 18 A Yes. 19 Q And at the outset I take it not many of those people 20 were American citizens? 21 A No. 22 Ω Or had become American citizens. 23 A I would assume a great many have. 24 Ω By this time. 25 A By this time, yes. Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library SECRET 410 1st Shock, S... Washtogton, DC. 20003

٢٤٠ Ph. E., Wastington, DC. 20003 WARD & PALIE Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 1 SELKEI 20 At the present time, how large is that Cuban community 2 in Miami? Do you have any idea? نیو A Well, it is extremely large. I would think it is 4 probably I was trying to think. I would say up towards a 5 military people. 6 Q 7 8 9 10 11 You spoke about paramilitary operations and covert action. How do you distinguish between those two categories of activities? A Well, actually one can fall into the other. The paramilitary could fall into covert action but in those days we did distinguish somewhat. A lot of the covert action was media placement. We had a number of operations at legal- type operations, harassment operations. For instance, Fidel 12 13 14 15 seized a great many art treasures and in particular he had a Napoleonic collection which was supposed to be the finest in 16 the world that he sold to dealers in Europe. He had paintings 17 that were immensely valuable that he tried to have auctioned 18 19 in London and the London auctioneer would not accept them because he obviously didn't have clear title to them. He was 20 they were stolen, in the eyes of the auctioneer. He was 21 forced to auction them in Toronto, Canada. 22 We ran legal operations, got the owners and had them 23 hire attorneys and bring them to court and this type of thing. 24 He seized these race horses. He tried to peddle them 25 in Europe and up in Canada. We ran opposition against that SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library